I've been thinking about this post for a while now, and I figured since it's Easter, what better time than now while I remember. I would like to address something that I have noticed frequently, across the internet, television media, etcetera, and mostly here on Xanga. And I'm just gonna come out and say it: atheists can be pompous, arrogant people who mock, ridicule, and show hatred toward people of faith, and that's just not fair.
Before I go any further, I want to make sure to inform anyone who hasn't been following my blog for at least a month or so about my system of beliefs; and that is that essentially, I have none. I fit the definition of an agnostic for the most part, and if you're interested you can read
this post which I wrote some time ago.
There are two things I've learned from discussions on Xanga regarding religion: 1) There are some very pissy Christians on Xanga, and 2) there are some equally pissy atheists here on Xanga. And when these two groups collide, oh boy is it a mess. And while a large amount of the issues may come from stereotypical Christian religious nuts, I can't help but think the atheists make the problem way worse. Hardcore atheists: I blame you for Christians hating us non-believers so much.
Other than that one post, I never blog about religion. Sometimes I would like to, but I don't because there is just way too much tension around that topic. And you know why that is? Because some people just can't accept different beliefs. And even though I don't think that's right, I get it; I have accepted that it will always be that way. But there are some people who just take this fact way too far.
There is one Xangan in particular who has sparked my attention on this matter. I have no personal problems with this person, as I do not know him/her as a person. What I know about this person is strictly from his posts. This Xangan goes by the username In_Reason_I_Trust.
This proud atheist often posts blogs and pictures that are derogatory toward Christians (and other religions). I'm all for Freedom of Speech, but doesn't it seem a little overboard? But it's not the images and captions, or even really the rants against religion that grind my gears; it's
this post that he links to after every blog about religion, saying "dear believer, do not comment until you read this." In_Reason_I_Trust refuses to allow any arguments against his views unless the arguer addresses the formal system of
logical argumentation. He actually explains the burden of proof, showing how it falls on a believer to provide
scientific evidence of the existence of a God. Seriously? Come on now. It's people like you who give atheists and agnostics a bad name. If God did exist, do you really think there would be scientific evidence within human reach of such an omnipotent being? Anyone who implements these stipulations on commenting effectively eliminates any real discussion, making every post and the comments that follow a one-sided festival of religion bashing. Blogs like these are only followed by similar people, creating a community of hate groups. And you know what, it's just fine that these people stay amongst their own kind. But then when, say, a Christian sees one of these posts, they get all pissed off and go back to Revelife to rant about how all non-believers are stuck-up bastards who refuse to accept a valid counterpoint. See how this negatively effects the rest of us?
I hate Revelife as much as the next guy. It's a community rife with close-minded, hard-core conservative, one-way street religious nuts, and on top of that they're constantly featured on Xanga's front page. But atheist Xangans are forever stereotyping all Christians as being like Revelife's featured posters. Then, because of those overzealous non-believers, I become afraid to go around letting people know my beliefs without explaining myself in detail.
Hard-core atheists, you are the reason that none of the rest of us can get away with blogging about religion. Go to hell, pun intended.
*EDIT*
Read follow up post.
Comments (63)
"If God did exist, do you really think there would be scientific evidence within human reach of such an omnipotent being?" Very well-put. I like this post, and I must say I agree with your views.
Hi Justin - I wish I had something constructive to add, but you've stated things very clearly. Other than the fact that I do believe, you and I share the same viewpoint. I find that intriguing, and a little unsettling. One thing is sure - there's a lot more religious intolerance than tolerance.
For the record, I'm not religious. I don't know what I am. Secular humanist/agnostic/wannabe Jew?
Yeah, that's my problem. I can't fucking stand Christians who are so moral to the point of being moronic and just plain close-minded...BUT I can't stand atheists who are incredibly pompous about their beliefs. There have been times... no joke when I have been talking to an atheist about the fact that I feel like there might be some higher power. It doesn't fit into conventional ideas of God though. And then they just started attacking me, and literally calling me an idiot for not fully embracing atheism.
I remember this one time I was particularly angry at a militant atheist friend. I was talking about someone who died, and sometimes I don't feel like they're completely gone. Then he piped up, "Darla, he's dead. He's dead. You're just deluding yourself, because you want to feel better." And then he got up on his atheist soapbox, and went off for like 30 minutes about the non-existence of God.
I didn't talk to him after that, really. Not even about safe topics, like music and impressionist art.
I can understand their anger at how they are treated here though. But don't be so abrasive and take it out on me, when I have done nothing to oppress or anger you.
i'd say the extremists on both ends ruin it for those who really want to discuss it. eh.
Thanks for this, I appreciate when people can approach the topic respectfully and with kindness.
Lol, well, the same can be said about hardcore religious people. I mean, in the end... sometimes fighting fire with fire is the only way to go, I guess.
love that ending.
...it's incredibly un-amazing how people, being people, can become spitefully zealous about anything - belief or disbelief. at heart i'm probably closer to one of those "hard-core conservatives" (minus the "nut" factor - no, the two aren't entirely synonymous;) than anything else, but i know what you mean, appealing to hate to push one's views helps no one. great post.
you're awesome. Our understanding is finite. I agree that everyone can be pompous.
This was a really great post.
well said.
" atheists can be pompous, arrogant people who mock, ridicule, and show hatred toward people of faith, and that's just not fair."
You can easily reverse this for anyone of faith as well. What is your point?
"I can't help but think the atheists make the problem way worse.
Hardcore atheists: I blame you for Christians hating us non-believers
so much."
Its built into their religion to basically despise anyone who doesn't agree with them. You sucking up isn't gonna change anything. =]
"This Xangan goes by the username In_Reason_I_Trust."
So you pick one of the more extreme atheists in the community and try to apply him to every other atheist. You sound an awful lot like a Christian right now.
" It's people like you who give atheists and agnostics a bad name."
Asking people to keep their craziness out of a discussion is not a bad thing. Asking someone to think logically is typically preferred in any debate. The point of asking for logic instead of false reasoning is because the question typically isn't whether or not God exists but whether or not someone has a good reason to believe he/she does. So he's really not giving anyone a bad name by asking people to speak intelligently. You have to learn to debate with people you oppose on their terms. We've argued the false clauses of the Bible for a while now, were past that. So there is no more arguing on Christian terms. Most of the arguments come from Christians who expect us to believe and are disgusted with us because we choose to follow logic instead of faith.
You can't compare the two; there is a huge difference between logical deduction and faith kiddo.
"making every post and the comments that follow a one-sided festival of religion bashing."
You're basically saying that Christians can't defend their religion with logic. If they can't, then they shouldn't join the conversation. If they can then its not one sided is it?
"Blogs like these are only followed by similar people, creating a community of hate groups."
I follow his blog but that doesn't mean I hate Christianity or Christians. I hate extremists of all religions. Stop stereotyping, you're making atheists look bad.
"See how this negatively effects the rest of us?"
It only negatively effects the people with no backbone who aren't secure in their beliefs actually.
"But atheist Xangans are forever stereotyping all Christians as being like Revelife's featured posters."
And what do you think you're doing to atheists?
Point: "Hard-core atheists, you are the reason that none of the rest of us can
get away with blogging about religion. Go to hell, pun intended."
Yeah, no. Fail.
Its just a matter of extremism on both ends. There are some atheists who attempt to reason with believers in a way that I think is respectful, and that's fine. I think that open discussion is important and there are many atheists, as well as Christians, who partake in civilized discussion. But I do agree that ridicule and hate has no place in a discussion about religion.
well put. great post.
I was gonna reply, but @lovechartreuse covered it pretty nicely.
The reason for my "Dear believer" link is because I don't want to waste my time reading preachy comments, or people asking me the SAME questions over and over (they STILL do, even when the links clearly provide answers, because they don't bother to look), or comments tellling me about the "wonderful miracles" that gawd has done for them (instead of taking credit for their success and responsibility for their failures), or comments with obvious logical fallacies (circular reasoning is a big one), etc. It is my site, and it is my prerogative to set the terms. Like lovechartreuse said, we all know the fallacies of the bible, so that doesn't count anymore as evidence. Either they have something truly unique that can be verified by multiple sources, or I'm not interested. It's quite simple, actually.
@In_Reason_I_Trust -
Neither side has a monopoly on ignorance or demagoguery. These are human failings, not the failings of any belief system.
wow... your entry is strangely similar to the one i wrote last week - only as a believer to my fellow believers - you may enjoy it. it's called "coming out of the closet" ... my lovely blog to "christians"... being that I am a Christian.
like you, i also hesitate to share where i stand with belief because of other people. it shouldn't be like that. i'm glad you wrote this.
So there are three basic groups, the theist, the atheists and the moderates. I think there's plenty of room for everyone.
I think maybe one good point is that the godless veiw needs to be out there and very easy to see, we've all been bashed with religion for so long we think it's normal, so it's time to give the other side some of the light.
Religion thrives because rational people do nothing.
The short version is: QUIT MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD. It hurts the cause.
I completely agree :)
I would be best described as an agnostic atheist, I'm free of an religion, but not without the idea that there may be a God, just that we do not know it (yet).
In_Reason_I_Trust is a friend, and for the religious extremists, I do understand why that disclaimer is there. It is so nutty trying to post a logical post when you are bombarded with "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" and huge arguements that stray far away from logic, and deep into faith of one particular religion.
That is both frustrating and annoying. And sometimes, as an agnostic atheist myself, I see many exceptionally blind people (blind to logic, science, the truth) and I just want to scream "WAKE UP" at them. Praying your children back to life does not work.
I agree, extremists on both sides need to stay away from each other, but I don't think you needed to single out atheists and tell them to go to hell. Sometimes I myself would like to remind Christians that they should practice what they preach, cut out the judgement act, and if they don't watch their actions, there will be a bench in hell with their name on it too.
@lovechartreuse - "You can't compare the two; there is a huge difference between logical deduction and faith kiddo."
You don't need to be patronizing and rude. It makes you look like the kind of person you probably aren't. Anyway, there is also a difference between scientific evidence and philosophical discussion. It is pretty difficult to discuss any kind of theology utilizing science, they simply aren't in the same realm. Philosophical debate, and logical arguments work just fine, but that doesn't equate to science.
I'm sure it felt really good to be condescending, but you are wrong. Trying to discuss theology in a scientific way is like trying to paint with a pencil: it is the wrong medium for it.
An excellent post. I have been intending a similar post, and may eventually still do one. Meatine, glad to meet you. Please check out a couple of my posts on religion, and let me know what you think.
http://lonelywanderer2.xanga.com/689095709/the-divinity-of-jesus-christ--content-added/
http://lonelywanderer2.xanga.com/688233913/on-god--satan-good--evil--updated-with-content-added/
@destroyERIKreator - "You don't need to be patronizing and rude. It makes you look like the kind of person you probably aren't."
How am I being rude?
"Anyway, there is also a difference between scientific evidence and philosophical discussion."
You should be careful in your words considering philosophy is highly scientific.
" It is pretty difficult to discuss any kind of theology utilizing science, they simply aren't in the same realm."
Sounds like a repeat of what I just said.
"Philosophical debate, and logical arguments work just fine, but that doesn't equate to science."
Science is about proving our current beliefs to either be false or valid; knowing the truth is a BIG part of any argument.
"I'm sure it felt really good to be condescending, but you are wrong."
So different opinion = condescending now?
Time to get some back bone people.
"Trying to discuss theology in a scientific way is like trying to paint with a pencil: it is the wrong medium for it."
Is that not what I just said? Perhaps you should read the comment before further making yourself look like a fucktard.
Hate it when dumbasses reply to me >_>
You're going to get hell for posting this....
...because all the extremist atheists are going to flame you for poking a giant hole in their arrogant posturing!
Very well said!
I can't help shaking my head at those people who are so extremely against extremism.The only way to really oppose arrogance and extremism is to show a bit of humility and moderation, wouldn't you say? ('Cause if you're not part of the solution....)
Yeah, In_Reason_I_Trust is really annoying. If you don't use the same reasoning as him/her, you get flamed. Actually, if you even disagree with him/her you get flamed. Yeah, if you trust reason, why don't you use it?